ROTR - Guillermina Cabello
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[00:00:00] This is Recruiters on the Rise, and I'm Colleen Gallagher. Join me for candid conversations with talent leaders as we explore the work that drives them, the lessons they've learned, and how they're helping people find careers they love. This show is sponsored by Lavalier, an interview intelligence platform built by Textio.
Colleen Gallagher: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Recruiters on the Rise. I'm so excited to have today's guest with me. She's our first guest based outside of the United States, and so I'm really excited to hear her perspective and how it might be different from, from those of us who, um, are nearer to recruiting within the United States.
Um, she's been in recruiting for more than 30 years from Mexico City. Uh, she places talent across Mexico, Latin America, the US, uh, for some of the biggest names in global IT outsourcing. She built her own recruiting agency from scratch, developed a proprietary method for IT screening, and put together a database of over twenty-one thousand IT [00:01:00] professionals.
She's worked with companies like Infosys, Wipro, and even collaborated with the Mexican government to help attract tech companies to open operations in Mexico. She has a really powerful candidate-first philosophy and perspective on the industry, and I'm just really excited to dig in and learn more. Um, she is currently the talent acquisition director at Ascend IT Management Consulting.
Guillermina Cabello, welcome to the show.
Guillermina Cabello: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Um, so I love, I love to dive in and ask, uh, all of my guests this question, which is, you know, what, what is the one thing or one action that sets the best recruiters apart from the rest?
Guillermina Cabello: Ones that really, um, see the candidate as a, as a person and not as a number, that they have empathy and that you really work with them to get the best for them, you know? Um, uh, s- [00:02:00] always have in, in mind that, um, being a third-party recruiter, because it's most that I have done through all my life, is that sometimes you need to l- to leave or, or to get, um, a position maybe, uh, not placed, but thinking first on the candidate
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: you are dealing with their lives and a decision or a wrong decision, um, just for getting you a fee can impact their lives, uh, for a long run.
So you have to be very empathetic and very honest and have a lot of integrity to, to really look first for the candidate, then for yourself. Because life is nice, so you can, uh, maybe not make the immediate placement that you're looking for, but as long as you keep that, the, the, the things will fall into place whenever the-- and you place the adequate placement.
Mm-hmm.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about, um, [00:03:00] like what helps you ensure that you feel good about placing the candidate? Like, what do you look for in terms of matching somebody with the right role?
Guillermina Cabello: Well, first of all, uh, I try always to, to understand the hiring manager, and b- and with that, then you, when you interview the candidate, you can, you can see if they're gonna be a, a match, no? Sometimes, uh, especially with repetitive clients, you get to know them better,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: You can find better the, the, the candidate.
And when you work longer with, with the, the end clients, sometimes, um, when you are working, you sometimes come across of candidates that you know that they are gonna be a good fit for them for their long-term plans, even though there's not an official opening. But then you work as a partner and as, um, a colleague w- that share the vision of the company and the vision of their department, and [00:04:00] you work more as like a, a coach or a counselor.
And, and then you can build good relationships that are good for the client but that will end up being good also for your candidate.
Colleen Gallagher: you said that you always try to ensure that you give candidates something of value even when they don't qualify for the role. So what, what does that look like to them?
Guillermina Cabello: Well, usually they are very grateful that I take the time to give them something that they can apply in other, uh, in other applications that they, that they have. Uh, was commenting that, uh, I deal a lot with bilingual candidates, you know? So sometimes we have all our conversations in English, and I say, "Okay, your grammar is good, uh, your fluency is more or less, but, uh, maybe why don't you practice?"
And sometimes I, I, well, I usually tell them, "Why don't you do this exercise that it's reading in English out loud?" And it have helped them a lot, you know, because I've made placement [00:05:00] like that when, when I interview and I say, "Okay, I'll halt interview for a week," if I can, of course. "And then you do this and this and that."
That is usually read, read material in English related with your job and then with day-to-day activities, just so that your tongue get, doesn't get twisted, I say. when you're a second, uh, non-native, native speaker, uh, sometimes, uh, your pronunciation or just, uh, starting to think that what you're gonna say, it delays the, the fluency, you know?
So when you're reading out loud, it makes you, uh, speak, uh, more fluently.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: The kind of advice that I
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Them. Uh, if I sense sometimes that the order of their resume is not okay or that they need to highlight something, I say, "Why don't you highlight this or this and that?" Because I think that, um, uh, if we, uh, provide value to the people that we deal with, it's, it's fair because if someone [00:06:00] does the same for a candidate they're looking for, we, we like, um, make a positive cycle out of the process. Because you know that many people think terrible things about recruiters, that we're just gonna, uh, make placements, that we don't think about them and that we don't, don't see their, their, their needs. And But I've received from feedback is that they are grateful that someone takes the time to give them the feedback, you know?
So,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: I been doing this for a long time, and I, like it, and it has worked for me.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. And I think that's-- it ties back to what you were saying about what makes a good recruiter, right? Because it's like the thing I think you hear from candidates the most is, and, and just sort of as any human, right? It's like when you just don't hear anything. And, and any time you can provide a candidate some value, um, it feels so, impactful and so meaningful.
And so [00:07:00] especially in the role where you build these long-term relationships and you care about where, you know, people end up, I think that's a really good way to make sure that you, um, you know, you can, you can help people and coach people and, build those longer term relationships that, um, that you've built.
I'm curious, so y-you've talked about like you've spent your entire career recruiting, um, IT talent in Mexico and Latin America for US companies. And I...
Guillermina Cabello: yes
Colleen Gallagher: there's probably a lot of our audience who are primarily focused on recruiting domestically. So what does nearshore recruiting look like, and what, what do most people not understand about it?
Guillermina Cabello: Well, uh, sometimes, uh, it's like the cultural fit. Um And it doesn't happen like, let's say, in the US, but it happened to me at first with India companies, Indian companies when they started to establish here in Mexico to provide nearshore services. So, uh, this is [00:08:00] an example, no? Um, here, here in Mexico, people, uh, in some, uh, levels used to study and also work, no? Especially when they are ending their, their careers. So the beginning when the companies came, they say, "Okay, you are a recent grad, so our salary ranges are from this and that." And they didn't take into consideration that people have already been working,
no? So they were very strict with the, "No, no, you're an entry-level, uh, worker," and that was not the case because they've been working for two years. So it took about six months to a year for the companies to understand that the way that, uh, things work here are a little bit different. I think that the other barrier that we always face in nearshore recruiting, it's the, um, the pronunciation barrier because you can be, uh, knowledgeable in the, in the language and speak, uh, [00:09:00] fluently in terms of, you know, the vocabulary, elaborate, uh, sentences and everything, but you can't, uh, not deny the, the accent that you have.
And sometimes when they are, uh, recruiting people from, from Mexico or Latin America, they say, "Oh, well, uh, English is not that good." And it's not that their English is not good, it's just that the pronunciation is the pronunciation. Because if you were gonna, if you're gonna, um, hire someone trying to pose as if they are native from the US, that's not gonna work.
So you're gonna have some price arbitrage because you're recruiting nearshore, there's some trading of what you can give or you not can give, and one of those is And you can see it now with, with artists. If you, um, take into consideration like Salma Hayek, she still has her Mexican accent, no? And there are others that, uh, Eiza González, that they live in the US or they train for accent neutralization and everything, and they speak as, as native [00:10:00] speakers. But you need to understand what is what you're looking for in terms of nearshore talent. Because in the past, many, uh, was because th- there was a labor shortage, especially in the beginnings of the 2000s, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: but, but the market trends have changed through time, no? And, and now may- maybe it's, uh, price, price arbitrage or don't know. No, it-- There are different, um, drivers
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: To hire nearshore.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: have to really understand what you're looking for. But I can tell that we have very good talent all through Latin America, and Mexico have is doing this, uh, for the last 20 years. So That's, uh, what we can offer as a, as a country, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love the point around what does entry level mean in salary and bands and things like that because that's, you know, a- [00:11:00] as somebody hiring somebody, if I was looking at a person who has been working and going to school full-time, that to me is like, wow, what initiative, what drive that person has.
And so I love... You know, there are things like those types of, of cultural differences or, um, that, you know, having somebody like yourself who understands those and can work with these companies is, is really incredible to make sure that, you know, people are respected and getting, you know, everything that they, they need in terms of compensation and, and experience.
So I love, I love that, um, that sort of nuance that you called out there.
Guillermina Cabello: I believe that, um, it's more than just, uh, being bilingual, I think in my case, because you have
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Be bicultural, understand different cultures, and see where are the gaps and difference, and trying to be a translator for the, the both parties to, to [00:12:00] understand what they can offer and what they can get from each other.
Because on the other side, you have candidate that say, "Oh, I'm being hired by a US-based company, so I want to make a lot of money," and that's not the case. No? So w- you, you really need to be like, um, like a translator o- of, of the realities. I, I always say that we recruiters are like, uh, professional Cupids, no? Because we
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Have two, two individuals, and you have to have, uh, to see if they actually match. But also though they are a, a, a match, sometimes the, the, um, placing time that each of the individuals are make that maybe they don't do the, the adequate match because maybe the hiring man- manager had a very bad day when she's making the interview, and it doesn't work.
No? Or maybe the, the drivers to, to enter, uh, the, the, the application from the candidate, it's different [00:13:00] because he's gonna get married, or he's gonna have a child, or, or, or, or there are things that, that get in the way that sometimes it doesn't work even though it's a, a good fit in terms of technical abilities and the cultural fit within the company, but it's just the timing that it's not adequate.
So we as recruiter has, have always to understand are we in time, both with our hiring manager and with our, and with our, uh, candidate. And I think that also speaking as a third-party recruiter, it's, um, dealing with HR, no? With, with the HR areas from the, from the companies that are hiring because it's very different.
No? And sometimes, um, at first at least they know better their hiring manager, so trying to, to work all that and, and really sell the candidate, sometimes it's, it's, uh, um, a challenge. [00:14:00] No?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I do find that as an interesting way to think about it. And you're right. Sometimes it's like there can be a lot of things that are, um, aligned in terms of fit, and timing is just off, um, for a variety of reasons. Yeah. Um, I guess just sticking with the nearshore, um, uh, recruiting process, um, one of the things that you consult on are T-TN1 visas and that process.
For people who aren't familiar with it, like what is a TN1 visa and why does it matter for the, the nearshore ta-talent pipeline?
Guillermina Cabello: Okay, the visas, uh, well, before those, these big changes have, uh, uh, come into place with the new administration, but usually it's, um, it's, it-- they were, um, designed at first when the NAFTA treaty was signed, and it was on- they, they are only for Canada and, and Mexico, [00:15:00] so they don't have a cap like H-1B
Colleen Gallagher: Hmm.
Guillermina Cabello: Visas. Uh, but the process is different from Canada and from Mexico because from Canada, at least in the past, they only have to have their offer letter, what, get to the border, and then they can get in, and it usually took, um... They, they were given for two years and then renewable for, uh, two, two consecutive periods of two years. But they don't have the seniority for, um, applying them for a green card. So usually the, the-- you get hired with a TN and then file for a H-1B, and then after you get the H-1B, then you can, um, file for a, for a, for a green card. Uh, and there were some very specific areas that you can apply for, and, um, IT was one of them.
But recently, some have [00:16:00] occurred, so you have to have a very specific IT engineering, um,
uh, background be able to file for this. No? But, um, think that the, the advice here would be, like, um, keep informed of all the changes because one thing is that what, what is announced, and then one is what is actually happening, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: basically, uh, in terms of talent, uh, they are easier to, to get, uh, and not as costly as the H-1B visas.
Colleen Gallagher: Hmm. That is helpful. Um, I guess just shifting a little bit towards your just overall experience and, uh, you know, you've been in IT recruiting for thirty years. You've gone from a world that had no internet to AI-powered sourcing tools. So what do, what did you, what have you find, found has changed the most about how you find and [00:17:00] attract talent and, and what feels like it's still the same?
Guillermina Cabello: Well, I think that, uh, finding the talent has become easier with the tools because, well, we've gone from job boards because first, and that's why I started, when, when we had an assignment, we, we went to actual events to, to find individuals or where, where they, they hanged out, no? Like the restaurants near areas that, uh, the big tech companies had and maybe make deals with, uh, the restaurants to have them leave their cards or something like that so that you can get their, their contact information, no?
And, um, uh, I once had a, a project where, uh, I knew that, uh, one big tech company had their, a bus with different routes, uh, where they were picking, uh, to take them to the, to their labor center. So we make, um, printouts of our opportunities and [00:18:00] hand them out, uh, when people were waiting for, for their bus, no?
You have to be creative in, in that, no? now, well, you have the job boards, and then you have LinkedIn, and you... But I think that the, the only thing that, that has changed is that, um, the The final target is digital, but the way that you approach with your innovation and creativity has to be the same, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: you know, you, you, you look for technical communities and, uh, maybe in the past, uh, maybe meet-up events. And right now there are less because after the pandemic many things changed. But the, the one thing that remains is, yeah, you have to, to really identify where the community that you are targeting is, where are they hanging out. Either it's physical or digital, but that's what you have to do. that thing, uh, that maybe in terms of [00:19:00] methodology, that's what still stands now.
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Guillermina Cabello: And I think that, um, the other challenge, and, and I don't know if, if really the technology is helping or not, is the engaging with the candidate. It's, for me, it's still one of the biggest challenges, no? Because, um, there are two scenario, no? The one when you have, uh, an open position and your company is very and you have a lot of people flocking to that, to that position. So
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Guillermina Cabello: There are the challenges in identify- identifying the, the best people for the position. And then the screening comes the challenge, and there's where maybe the ATS's filters or the AI can help to get the ones that they consider, um, the best, no? So that's the one scenario. The other, uh, scenario is when you have an opening where it's very hard to fill, and [00:20:00] then the, all the, um, stress of getting and finding the candidate and engaging with them and, and getting them, them to respond, it's yours, no? And that hasn't changed through time. Even though we have the highest, uh, the AIs or whatever,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: can have them there, but if you are not able to contact them and engage them, then it's, it's no use, whatever it is there that can help you, no? Because let's say that technology has helped you to identify the talent, but what it's on you, it's the way that you actually engage with the candidate and get a positive response to participate in your project. So you really need to understand very well in which, uh, side of the equation are you like, uh, you are, uh...
Where do you have your leverage, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Guillermina Cabello: That's when, where you work [00:21:00] from there.
Colleen Gallagher: I guess sort of tying it back into the, um, you know, the discussion earlier about giving candidates feedback or advice, what has changed in terms of like what you see employers valuing, if at all, in terms of like candidates, especially in the IT and technical fields with the emergence of AI?
Are there different things that you see people hiring for, or has it changed at all from what you've seen?
Guillermina Cabello: Well, I think what, uh, at least here in, in Mexico way, I think that we are in the early stages of, uh, our clients looking people with experience in AI, per se.
So we are both learning about the process and what are they actually looking in AI now because, um, do they want them to perform testing so they are gonna embed in the process, but they are still using the, the previous knowledge to [00:22:00] fine-tune the test cases, no? Or substitute the, the... So I think that we are still learning how, how and what are we gonna do with, uh, how are we gonna work with the, with the different AI, AI tools, no? Because, uh, what I've seen is that at first people were looking to replace that. That's not good for business, but to replace individuals, no? But we're seeing now is that, uh, that's not working, that here they still have to maybe, um, cut one or two positions, but with the AI tools make the, the, the individuals more, more efficient. But are, they gonna just, um, use the AI for consultation purposes or they are going to, uh, build, uh, agentic, um, tools, no? Or, or what are they-- what is really the purpose? But companies, especially s- especially [00:23:00] mid-sized company, they don't know what really to expect. So sometimes, uh, they, they are looking for candidates that can offer magic solutions, maybe they don't need those magic solutions, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I mean, I think it's-- the narrative is changing a little bit in the market right now where the, you know, everyone was saying, "Oh, the AI is gonna end, you know, the need for jobs and all this." And, and certainly that's not to minimize some of the, the layoffs and contraction that companies have experienced.
But I do think that what we're also hearing emerge with a little bit more, um, force is actually we cut too many people or, um, you know, we're, we're not getting the gains or we haven't really figured out how to measure the impact of AI, um, overall. So I think that's interesting and [00:24:00] sort of validating to hear that that's what you're seeing as well with some of these companies.
And it's more about how do you help the people you have increase output l- and less, "Let's cut a bunch of people because AI can do it for us."
Guillermina Cabello: Yeah, and the other thing, the other day I was reading an article that for me was quite interesting because they say, "Okay, so you're using AI to substitute entry-level workers." But you need to, to replace or move middle level, who going to replace those middle workers that are moving up the ladder?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Because you don't have the, the base that's gonna do that. So, uh, I think that, um, as companies, as recruiters, and everybody has to be very careful of their replacement grids, no? And, and, and see what can you can do and what you can do and maybe making in, in minor steps because, [00:25:00] uh, also, um, I read that Microsoft ceased to use a lot of their tools because in terms of cost was, um, for the tokens or whatever, was more expensive than actually using the individuals.
So the, the hype is not that great when you, uh, as time goes by, revise the cost, and maybe, uh, you have to rethink it, no? So I think my advice for the companies is think very clearly for what do you want to use your AI, and then do it by baby steps, no? One by one in, and in selected areas so that you can really measure in six months time the, your return on investment and if you are having the results that, that you are actually expecting. And not just cut like, uh- free and, and then realize that you needed them as Ford did know, I don't-- But maybe you [00:26:00] already also know that they had to rehire a lot of engineers that they, they laid off because they weren't getting the results that they needed. And, um, I think that AI is... We have to learn a lot of, of, uh, about AI, you know, because, uh, there's not a, a clear, uh, boundary be-between what's a, a learning mo-model and a plagiarizing model now. So, um, and, and things or, or maybe it's in the middle of things because it's AI, they can do everything, that's not certain, you know, like,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Getting copyright material or working with images of the people and,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: things like that now. So, um, I think we have a, lot to see with, with AI, and in recruiting, we have to-- In recruiting, I think we have to keep, uh, abreast on the, on the, on the changes that are going so that we can provide adequate, [00:27:00] uh, advice to our clients, either our internal or external, because we are the voice of the people, and if things doesn't work, will return to us
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: uh, resolve those problems,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. When you talk about, um, a lot of companies when they are doing hiring evaluations right now want candidates with experience in AI and, and knowing that that definition of experience in AI is a little bit, um, inconsistent and, and perhaps even the companies don't know exactly what it means.
Like, what are-- how are you seeing candidates, um, educate themselves if it's not been a core part of their, their role before? Are they, um, taking classes? Are they doing projects? Like, what are the types of ways you're seeing candidates get more learning and education?
Guillermina Cabello: Some of them are, uh, learning on their, learning on their, on their own, and I think that least [00:28:00] Claude and ChatGPT have, uh, good academies to learn about that. seen that, um, the full stack developers or the data analysts that, uh, know Python, they do more, um, they go more through the LLM models. No, the, the more sophisticated parts. So it depends on, on the kind of background that they have in IT, the, the, the, the path that they choose, no? I, I seen, uh, many full stack developers that, um, they did, um, with Python and I'm-- are moving into the AI, both in the learning models, no? And then you have people with not that much of experience that they are moving more, uh, in automation things using the same AI, AI tools, no?
So, uh, being very brief, that is like the two threads that
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Interesting. Um, well, I, I guess I wanna transition a little to, to learn more about you. One of the things [00:29:00] you shared with me on our prep call kind of stuck out to me was, um, you said that your, your experience as a consultant and running an agency is like wine. The older you get, the more valuable it becomes.
But inside a company, sometimes age can be a liability, um, which, you know, which is a strong statement. So te-tell me more what you mean about that and, and your experience there.
Guillermina Cabello: Well, uh, ageism is a challenge everywhere.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: more in my country than in, um, than in yours because there are a lot of protections that there are, um, that maybe in the, in the States are more enforceable than here in Mexico, because in theory, we have them, but in reality, we don't, no. So, um, I think that, uh, when you come of age you, you, you n- to your, your services as a value, as a consultant because the seniority counts.
Because all the experience that you have accrued through [00:30:00] time, through dealing with different companies, different positions and everything, is something that you can offer to your, to your client as experience, where you can help them to get better decisions because of all the things that you have, you have, uh,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: time. But when, when you are, uh, within a company, you have to follow the unwritten rules that, uh, people is, um, I don't know. They say, "Okay, maybe people over 40 or 50, they have the experience, but maybe they can start f- facing that they get tired or things." Because I don't know why they say that, that it's a liability, because I really don't find where's the liability, the liability, no?
But that's the, the, the, the, the word that they use. And for me, the only thing would be that maybe they need, um, more time for, I don't know, uh, personal activities or maybe, um, because they have suffered stress, stress [00:31:00] through time, But, but that's the point, no, that, um, the way that you can market your knowledge is different when you are offering less a service provider as in within the, within, um, a company. Because they always think that younger people have... They are more innovative, creative, and, uh, they can give more to the, to the, to the company.
And not really so, because experience can, um, can bring a lot to the table,
Colleen Gallagher: Totally.
Guillermina Cabello: The companies, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: we, we always have to, uh- To work with that, no? And, and to sell that, that, that, uh, the value that we can bring as, as people with, with experience and just take those, no? And the other thing is that candidate thinks that the recruiter are filtering me out and say, "We are not filtering you out because we follow the, the, uh, the rules or the instructions that we receive from the upper [00:32:00] management."
So it's not me, because even though I want to present someone that maybe 60 or whatever, if I know that the hiring manager is gonna to reject it, it's not me.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: So we, we, we need to work really with the company values, the company culture, and with the upper management. Because sometimes companies, they say, "Oh, we don't have this restriction," but they want the guy that's making the decision has in their mind.
So they are,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: they use things that are not, um, really, uh, measurable, no, to, to reject a candidate. Uh, and that's the challenge that we are always
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. you've been doing this for 30-- you know, you said it, for over 30 years, and you're still running your own agency and placing candidates, learning all the new tools. Like, what keeps you going? You seem very, um, energized by it, but, but, um, why is it... You know, what's still fun about it for you?
Guillermina Cabello: I think that, uh, learning, uh, all, all the new things, uh, [00:33:00] as when the, b-before the, before the, the internet, no? um, before the internet, uh, like trying to find individuals and then, uh, when, when we discovered it and, and using the initial Boolean searches and the engines, like when it was like you use, uh, AltaVista before Google and Yeah. and, things like that.
It, it was nice. So now, for example, for me, right now it's understanding AI and how can I apply it in the recruiting without losing the personal touch, no? But I-- for me, the driver is always learning from the market, from the technology, uh, from the individuals that I, um, that I interview because you always learn something, no?
Especially when there are new, new tools or new skill sets, uh, in terms of, of technical skills. When I don't know, I say, "Okay, this is [00:34:00] new for me. I'm not familiar with this. Can you explain me? Uh, I know that I'm making the, the first filter, but if I don't understand it, I can not put you through the, the whole process, so
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Help you."
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: the, the interaction with the, with the, with the people, it, it, it, um, it nourishes me, no?
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. The-- It's fun to meet more-- meet new people, have that human connection, sort of see how things are evolving. I think that's, um,
Guillermina Cabello: Yeah
Colleen Gallagher: you know, that's often what keeps people going, and it's, it's,
it's exciting to see all the changes
Guillermina Cabello: Yeah, and it is great. You know,
I, I say
65 years old and I'm still recruiting and I like very
Colleen Gallagher: Right?
Guillermina Cabello: I'm doing and I'm always learning and, uh, I try to, to do my best. Uh, I'm not thinking of retiring for the, at least for the next five years. And, uh, and I'm very eager to learn and to give of me in
what I've been doing for the [00:35:00] last 30 years now.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I mean, what a gift, you know? Like, to be able to do something you love that's so fun, and I think it's also what, you know, has probably fueled a lot of your success, right? Is if you're doing something you love, it doesn't feel like work,
Guillermina Cabello: And
remote work, uh, helps a lot now because, uh, I'm in my house so I don't have to move a lot and things like that, so that's, that's, that's very nice. No, and but I, I did this even before of the pandemic. I've been working remotely. And one thing that I like very much about it, and, uh, I think it has helped me, uh, personally, is that, um, usually don't have, uh, uh, like video conferences.
Everything, I do it on the phone. So I think that I take out a lot of the bias because I only go and ask about the technical skills of the individual and, and get a lot about their traits in the way that they interact with me. And so I don't have [00:36:00] to make like a, oh, the competence, uh, interview. Of course, I, I embed it in my interviews, but after so many years, you, you know when and
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: what to read about what you're doing. So w- I think that what I like the most is that, uh, I have the means of make unbiased interviews
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: I've been doing
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's what c- that's the stuff that comes with aging, right? Like, that's the wine part of it, like we were talking about before, because, you know, somebody who's done this for as, as long as you have has the unique capability to do that, that, you know, people who are younger and, and that type of thing applies to a number of functions and roles.
It's not just specific to recruiting.
Guillermina Cabello: Yeah, because you learn a lot of, uh ... Even, like, establishing the interview, the way that they follow the, the instructions, because sometimes I say, "Okay, uh, thank you." I engage them through LinkedIn and they, uh, "Why don't you, um, [00:37:00] connect with me through WhatsApp? Here's my phone." Because, you know, now people don't like to receive phones or whatever because of privacy issues. And, and you see, let's say, when they say, "Oh, okay." and, and you see when they do it on their own, or they want you to do it, no? So from those little things you learn a lot, no? And, uh, I have an example that has happened twice this year, um, for me. My, my name is Guille, and in Spanish it's G-U-I, the gui, it's G-U-I. And, uh, there, there are individuals that write my name without the U, that there are Spanish speakers, no? And, and there were Both of them were testers. And for me to say, "Okay, if you are not able to follow instructions or read my name or write
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: And you're a tester, then for me it's a no-go."
You see? And the, the same goes, uh, the other day I was coaching a, a guy, [00:38:00] um, through ... He's in a career transition and say, for the people that I more, more strict when I review the resumes is people that are selling, uh, that are in sales or in marketing, because if you are not able to sell yourself, can I expect that you can sell some other product or services? And the same goes for
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: The way that you present your resume and that you highlight your strengths and, um, try to, um, diminish your, your, your weaknesses and things like that, that's part of being a strategist. And if you can't do it with yourself, uh, so I'm very strict with that. So I take al- also into consideration the kind of position I'm trying to fill and the, the, in the way that I review the resumes.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: That only comes with time,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Yeah. It's, it's a way to, you know, to identify if people have the skills that are required for the, for the role. Um, so [00:39:00] yeah. Um, okay. Well, one of the-- one of my last questions, but it's a question I do like to ask everyone is, um, you know, you've, you've obviously had a ton of experience in recruiting and you've lived a lot o-of, of life.
If you could meet yourself a few days after graduation, you know, before you started any of this, like, what advice would you give yourself?
Guillermina Cabello: my background it's in, uh, in, in computer information systems, so, um, maybe it's not that I regret what I'm doing. I, I would say, maybe explore more being in the IT field. But in recruiting, I, I would say, um, start preparing earlier and try to look for the newest, uh, so that you can be always more competitive. No? Because is-- And always learn from the market. Because at first I think that I was just, uh, navigating as things, uh, things came to me.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: [00:40:00] After, I don't know, ten years and having gone through the internet bubble and the, all the bubbles that are around the ups and downs, uh, it's like, uh, always to be prepared and have a plan B.
No? Because I entered recruiting, uh, by chance, and now I know that it's my passion and my career. But what I would say is that always be prepared and understand the economics of the country and of the world and see is your place within that, um,
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Guillermina Cabello: Ecosystem so that you can make the right decisions and not just get to a place just because the life took you, but that you are in the place at the time because you made an informed decision.
Colleen Gallagher: I love that. Um, what, what do you do outside of work when you're not focused on recruiting? What, what is something fun that you do, [00:41:00] um
Guillermina Cabello: lately I've, I've been, uh, learning a lot of entertain- entertainment and I um, a special course, let's say, about the entertainment industry. So I learned about the music industry and things like that because, uh, I don't know, I like it. And, um, so I started making videos like a fan base, but, um, from the stories of the, of the artists and things like that, so.
Colleen Gallagher: Ah.
Guillermina Cabello: I'm, I, I really enjoy that because I think that I lo- a lot of the creativity. And I started from zero, no? And now I can use different tracks and levels and, and
Colleen Gallagher: awesome
Guillermina Cabello: noise and make my, my, my own creations, and it's very entertaining
Colleen Gallagher: Thanks.
Guillermina Cabello: Can use it for content. So I think that in terms of, um, image and, um, the, the way that you can make your message, you can, uh...
I can blend both, both, uh, knowledge. So I'm, [00:42:00] I'm trying to use that and maybe I will, um, make myself a content creator with both my experiences. That's why I think I will be doing that.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's, that sounds so much, like so much fun. Um,
Guillermina Cabello: Yeah.
Colleen Gallagher: what a good way to...
Guillermina Cabello: of fun.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah.
Guillermina Cabello: Try to learn something.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Totally ties into that. Um, well, thank you so much for joining me on this. It was just very, um, you know, this was a very fun conversation. It was really n- uh, educational too, to just learn about some of the ways that recruiting can be different.
Um, you know, even though
Guillermina Cabello: Oh,
Colleen Gallagher: close neighbors, um, obviously, like you said, there's cultural differences and, and things like that that really need to be taken into account. And so it was really, really great to hear your perspective and share your knowledge on that. So thank you so much for joining me
Guillermina Cabello: Oh, Colleen, I'm very grateful, uh, for the opportunity and for having this chat with you, and I hope that it's helpful. And, um, it's been a lot of fun know that you know that sometimes, uh, being in this, uh, in this side, you [00:43:00] see maybe we are very far from the first world country and whatever you do. But I think that we have many things in common, and we can, uh, learn from each other and get, uh, a, a good message and, uh, and get something positive and, uh, a good learning experience for both, no?
For me, it was a very good learning experience. I haven't done a pos- podcasting, uh, I don't know how long, and
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah
Guillermina Cabello: done anything in English, so it's my first
Colleen Gallagher: You did-- Well, thank you. You did great. Um, it was, it was very clear, so I appreciate that.
Guillermina Cabello: Oh, thank
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah, I,
Guillermina Cabello: it, and, uh, I hope everything goes well, and maybe we'll meet in the future. Uh, thank you. Thank you very
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. And if people wanna connect with you, what's the best way to find you?
Guillermina Cabello: Well, they can find me on LinkedIn with my name. No, and, uh, my, uh, email, it's, uh, @T-E-R-S-S.com. That's my email, [00:44:00] and that's why they can, they can find me. No,
Colleen Gallagher: Oh,
Guillermina Cabello: uh, yeah, they ask me-- they, they can, um, as a condition through LinkedIn and say, "I, well, I learned from you at on Recruiters on the Rise," and of course, I will accept them, and it would be my pleasure.
Thank you very much
Colleen Gallagher: A- awesome. Well, thank you again for joining us, and thanks to everyone who is listening or watching. If you learned something new or laughed today, please share this. And once again, thanks to, uh, thanks to Yermena for joining us, and we'll see you next time
Guillermina Cabello: Yeah, for sure. Thank you very much. Bye-bye
And that wraps up another episode. Thank you for joining. For show notes and other episodes, visit us at recruitersontherise.com. Recruiters on The Rise is sponsored by Lavaliere, an interview intelligence platform. Lavaliere goes beyond basic note-takers to improve your ability to assess candidates with AI-powered interview questions, summaries, and transcription.
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