ROTR - Dennis Ivanov
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[00:00:00] This is Recruiters on the Rise, and I'm Colleen Gallagher. Join me for candid conversations with talent leaders as we explore the work that drives them, the lessons they've learned, and how they're helping people find careers they love. This show is sponsored by Lavalier, an interview intelligence platform built by Textio.
Colleen Gallagher: Welcome everybody to today's episode of Recruiters on the Rise. I'm so excited to have our guest with me today. We're gonna hear about how he's made over 400 hires in under three years with almost no dedicated recruiting team, including several executive hires. He's-- He joined this company in the middle of explosive growth, going from under $100 million to almost a half a billion dollars, and built the recruiting engine to keep up with it.
Before recruiting, he was tracking snow leopards in Siberia for National Geographic Conservation Program, which we will definitely talk about. He previously built and led recruiting teams at Amazon, where his team was so good at [00:01:00] sourcing that other orgs were quite jealous. And welcome to the show, Dennis Ivanov, Director of Global Talent Acquisition at Unimax Global.
Dennis Ivanov: Thank you, Colleen. Thank you, everyone, and, um, thank you for having me over.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah, I'm so excited to, to learn. You have a number of really great stories, so, um, we will, we will definitely get to those, especially on snow leopards. But, um, let's talk recruiting a little bit first. So I love to start off and just ask people what is the one thing or one action that makes the best recruiters stand out from the rest?
Dennis Ivanov: Yeah, Colleen, I, I would probably reflect from the standpoint of, um, from a fearlessness. That that's probably the, the main point for me. We will experience healthy amount of fear,
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Dennis Ivanov: but as an old saying, um, goes, afraid, hands do." Um, those who actually overcome their fear within, they're the ones who actually I, I see for the most part in the industry are the, the most successful [00:02:00] recruiters or recruiting leaders. Um, they're the ones who actually don't take no for an answer. They don't settle for good enough. And so that, uh, s- high standard of professionalism plus fearlessness, that's what makes them exceptional, I believe. And that's the type of profile I was choosing for my teams at Amazon initially as well. So it's-- Um, that's probably the best way to answer that question.
Colleen Gallagher: So what does that look like in practice? Like, what do you see a fearless recruiter doing that others won't?
Dennis Ivanov: Yeah, and it's-- it, it really depends. I mean, it's a team environment or whether it's individual contributor working on the project. It's when, uh... For ex-- Let, let me give you an example. It's, it's, um... Before the, uh, Amazon Prime Now w-was actually launched Um, I, I, I worked with the CEO direct, and the conversation was, you know, we would go from few-- a couple of dozens, uh, or a few dozens basically into four hundred plus in the first year to launch the service. And so that criticality, it's, it's, it's a lot to hire in one [00:03:00] year. You have to execute the strategies, you have to find the talent, you have to make sure the business continues launching on time and on budget. So, um, and then at the same time, you're paying attention to the OpEx impact, obviously, from recruiting organization.
So that's where that partnership, obviously, with the CEO direct, how we execute on strategies, how we align the, the talent that we need to execute on time, um, discussing the org structures, how we build those organizations actually from within. So all of those conversations were basically upfront, and it's-- it was somewhat of a mission impossible. yet, uh, still with a few resources, I was able to execute all a level fi-- um, basically L five, L six, L seven positions in the technical, um, specifically. So it's, it's those specific projects and missions that make it difficult to execute. I think that's where that, uh, creativity comes into place, the unwavering commitment comes in, into place.
And so it's, uh, that's where the, the real [00:04:00] magic, I believe, happens, is just, uh, when the deadlines are short and execution is not optional. It has to happen. So, um, I believe this is where my experiences, at least, uh, with, with Amazon particularly launching new programs, launching, um, uh, services that Amazon was offering to, uh, to their obviously customer base. where I think I was-- I, I, I was able to recognize it fairly quickly, uh, that those attributes are going to be critical to success.
Colleen Gallagher: what's interesting and what I'm hearing you talk about is when I initially heard you say it, it's fearlessness. I would've thought it was more around how to, um, deal with candidates and sort of like the external approach. And what I'm hearing you say is it's more about being really specific internally and fighting for the resources that you need.
And that doesn't necessarily mean, uh, a lot of budget, but it's just being very clear with the hiring managers you're working with, the, the folks that are leading, [00:05:00] you know, the GM of the business or the president of the business, with making sure they understand like how you need support from them in order to be successful.
Does that sound right?
Dennis Ivanov: Correct. And sometimes you, you know, it, it also depends, um, in, in the level of conversations and discussions that take place. Case in point, in quite a few experiences, I worked with L ten directly at Amazon, which, um, and being at the level six, working with the level ten directly, they were taken aback, right?
It's, uh, "Denis, we're used to level seven at least speaking to us." But, um- You know, th-this is where you obviously adjust your level of communication style and obviously how you deliver the message and so forth. So in, in not being afraid to face those individuals and actually d-- and ability to say no when you see that certain strategies that they're trying to implement are going to really-- to eventually become a stumbling block for them personally.
So it's-- is where that advisory, uh, capacity comes into place and ability [00:06:00] to public speak if it needs to. Um, case in point, for specific functions, we executed tech talks, uh, industry tech talks, and, uh, many different initiatives that actually you have to run forward, and sometimes you end up public speaking, sometimes you end up connecting with, um, you know, basically to competitors in the companies, right?
And so being bold about And I, I think that energy actually translated into my composition of my teams later on at Amazon. And I think that makeup of recruiters who were able to, at level five, converse easily with level eight directors and, and run certain tasks and certain executions forward, where I think that it's, it's not just a market
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: the-- of that fearlessness, but it's also that internal capacity to overcome that fear and, uh, to execute.
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I think there's a, there's a perception, um, that when you work somewhere like Amazon, you might have sort of seemingly infinite resources. You have the big brand name, but [00:07:00] we, you know, heard in the introduction that you have, uh, moved on to a company who, you know, like most companies, is, is smaller overall than, than Amazon.
But you have done, you know, made, I think, something like 400 hires, you said, in under three years. And so really that speaks to the fact that, you know, you must have something really working in terms of like process and, and how you think about that. So how did you translate, um, that success from Amazon into a company that might have a, a less well-known, uh, you know, external brand and, and, and be so successful with hiring the, the number of folks you have?
Dennis Ivanov: Well, one thing, I guess it's important to clarify that I believe that that sense of frugality came back at Amazon actually back in the day. Meaning for my own personal expenses, traveling, I was very frugal about it, all the way to team expenses, all the way to the initiatives we launched, the budgets for initiatives that were launched as well. It started with frugality, one of the Amazon
Colleen Gallagher: [00:08:00] Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: And so case in point, sometimes you have to be creative and find solutions that otherwise you would spend fortunes on. So, and I will you a basic example. At AWS, uh, one of the programs that I had to relaunch because it was struggling, uh, specifically we were looking for cleared talent for SCIFs, right?
For the secure facilities basically for AWS. And, um, you know, there, there was a lot of ideas flowing around, but they're all budget heavy, kind of intensive really solutions. I asked them basic questions, right? It's, uh, how does our competition commute to work, right? And they said there's a, there's a train and there's public transportation as well. Why can't we print eight and a half by eleven and print those, uh, based on the bus stops, right? So
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: to basics and finding the solutions that actually work in the legacy mode, offline mode,
being creative about it, that's where it's critical actually to
execute effectively with lesser budget possible. And I think that mentality kind of flowed into my work, uh, environment at [00:09:00] Unimax, where I realized that the recruiting resources are very limited. So the only possible resources I could have would be either hire HR managers, and so I would have to lean on them and expand them or make them a hybrid. So case in point, some of the s- uh, scalability perspectives, I had to expand it through the existing HR team. And actually, um, you, you know, some of them I had to Model and kind of create new job responsibilities and so forth. So specifically for high volume, uh, be it a direct labor, there, there's basically factory, uh, shop floor kind of a d-direct labor. I would oversee the process, but they're the ones who would be executing upon basically my instructions and, uh, or per SOPs and so forth.
So it was more about just thinking, uh, ahead kind of comprehensively on how we can scale that with the limited resources possible. And when I joined the company, you're absolutely correct, it was sub $100 million. We, we had very limited budget. And so, um, plus recently we were acquired by [00:10:00] Zetwerk, India-based company, which is currently over three billion dollars worth. But back then, back in the day, the, the resources were super limited. So we had to be creative about it. But executing all of that is, uh, correct. I mean, it's, it's just also identifying where those priorities are within the company, meaning working directly with the executive team, where the greenfield projects or case in point, um, a, a year plus ago when we had to urgently find a CEO for the company.
That was just immediate search that had to start right away. Besides that, there, there was a five-- at least five C-level positions that had to be filled. So you have to split that work obviously and, um, to be, be as frugal as possible to use whatever resources you have. so it's a lot of it is really came from Amazon, from ability to optimize the processes and scale them as, as needed,
Colleen Gallagher: little bit more. I know you just touched on it, but when you think about, um The fact that you had to use some of [00:11:00] your, like HRBPs or, or folks on the HR team to train them to be recruiters. Like, what were the things that you focused on first? Um, and, you know, what were some of the long-term positive impacts from, from having somebody who had experience not only working with the talent once they're in-house, but bringing it in?
Dennis Ivanov: You know, th-this is where the, I, I think the intention worked properly. One of the-- One of my intentions was to make sure that HR team has strengths with recruiting, meaning expand their own professional skill set and the tool bag. And so case in point, half of the team had no exposure to recruiting, uh, in the past. But, uh, ha- the other half of the team actually have done recruiting in the past, so they, they were quite comfortable doing it.
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Dennis Ivanov: case in point, it was just basically building out proper training, uh, training sessions, SOPs, help them to kind of build the proper right habits around it. And then additionally just screening, right, and kind of shadowing each [00:12:00] other and so forth That was quick.
That was about less than three months process that was actually executed fairly quickly. So case in point today, hourly positions, they all basically they work decentralized mode, I guess better way to put it, but with oversight from the, uh, obviously the head of the talent acquisition function being me, obviously the process just to make sure that everything is flowing smoothly. So it wasn't really a, a big, stumbling block. It was more just the do you structure the training, uh, that learning development component for them so they can, they can become successful. That was the only really challenge that I had to think through. But huge networks, uh, sometimes it's, you know, those materials were built at Amazon as well, and then
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: a lot of professional network was able to reach out and actually structure that training
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: so...
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Awesome.
Dennis Ivanov: And it gives them, uh, gives them marketability. I mean, goodness forbid anything happens, they can walk out and they can be great recruiters today actually in the talent acquisition function.
Colleen Gallagher: [00:13:00] Yeah. I mean, you know, there's-- I, I think you and I maybe talked about this, um, before the show, but, you know, there's a-- I've, I've seen some chatter recently around TA should be its own function outside of HR, and I think that... I actually think, you know, that's not the right direction because you need people who feel and understand, like it's not just about bri-bringing talent through the door, and then you sort of like hand it off and, you know, leave everyone to their, their own stuff.
It's like you have to make sure that the people that you're bringing in are, are going to raise the talent bar, are going to help, um, you know, really help the organization overall. And I think that that has to work hand in hand with the, with the overall HR team
Dennis Ivanov: Yeah, Colleen, this is one-- this one is a big one because I've, I've heard the similar, uh, discussions and quite heated discussions actually. Should the TA be a separate functional together? The, the way-- Or should it be continuously being part of [00:14:00] HR organization? I believe my view is it's, it's when you think about the tree, that hidden part, the roots that holds the tree together are HR organization with a trunk. part of the trunk and branches and leaves, that's talent acquisition externally facing function. It's not an easy function because it's a market-facing function.
Colleen Gallagher: Mm-hmm.
Dennis Ivanov: that's where the employer branding comes into place. Um, a few, you know, work with the PR teams, right, or legal teams, finance teams for that matter. And so, um, because there's a lot of interesting aspects that we can discuss such as, you know, for example, how the finance treats The hires versus how the talent acquisition treats. Is it by the start date or is it by the offer accepted date? And so many different things that I walked into a lot of these conflicts at Amazon, and they were quickly resolved because obviously creating those proper partnerships, that's where it's going to be critical.
And for the most part, that's why ATA is a [00:15:00] unique, um, branch of HR organization. It's-- it has externally facing once again, but also additional real partnership, partnerships within the organizations that typically HR might not hold. I mean, legal, PR maybe, but, um, finance going deep into the workforce planning, right?
So that's,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: where it gets really, really kind of a dark, forest for many HR specialists. But a few talent acquisition, um, leadership and specialist individual contributors, they can navigate those landscapes fairly easy.
Colleen Gallagher: You mentioned employer brand and, um, you, you've shared with me before that you invested, you know, two years building the employer brand, um, before you saw the payoff, which takes a lot of patience. Um, so tell me a little bit more about what you actually did during that time to help, um, you know, improve, um, the, the visibility and, and knowledge about your current organization.
Dennis Ivanov: I'm probably going to open some of the cards for my next week, uh, speaking engagement at Leap [00:16:00] HR in Austin, Texas. But so be it. Um, most importantly, I-- when I walked in, one of the first things that I-- and it was-- I've been using AI for the last four-plus years, at least. I do it a lot for the insights
analytics as well. That kind of stems back from my experience at Microsoft, obviously running the-- in business intelligence eng-engineering analysis perspectives and so forth, big data. So I was very comfortable with the AI when it got s- when it got rolled out. One of the, um, uh, analysis I ran, uh, within Unimax Global to understand the, the strengths, the capabilities of recruiting function, how it should be properly structured. branding was, um, almost non-existent, right? So it's-- was a lot of push basically going out, getting candidates, um, working with agencies for that matter, to create the pipelines. Unfortunately, agencies became sort of a s- part of the supporting structure of the organization. And that's where a lot of, um, kind of, of disadvantages happened [00:17:00] from the model perspective as an operating system for the recruiting organization. Um, it was kind of more of that knee-jerk reaction, right? It's when there, there would be a specific requirement coming in, be, be it for like two or three quality control managers. My immediate question is, why do we need two or three of them? What's the need? W-what's the business need? What are we trying to solve with this? In, in a reactive, uh, way, talent acquisition function was just basically a service function. Yes, sir.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah,
Dennis Ivanov: ma'am.
Colleen Gallagher: Like
Dennis Ivanov: let's
Colleen Gallagher: you're touching on too is making sure that
Dennis Ivanov: um, model, and that's where I, I saw that it's not going to scale anyway. Um, so I partnered with the marketing, um, basically, um, executives at Unimax and Zetwork start working on employer branding, uh, building out relationships with local vortex schools, uh, state authorities. So started building that awareness obviously through, um, you know, being, um-- participating in career fairs, right? So it's a lot of different things went into that, [00:18:00] um, mix, better way to put it. But at this point, I would say, n-not even at this point, but I would say our investment initially into the employer branding resulted in months later, we started realizing huge success with pool strategy. Meaning we would simply list the positions, and we would receive hundreds of applications literally within, uh, 48 to 72 hours. So we, we saw the evidence that it's working, and we just continued basically pushing on it. Case in point, we completely, per my request, updated the career site. We had
Colleen Gallagher: the
Dennis Ivanov: things that we started initially doing in the company from HR talent acquisition perspective that actually pulled-- uh, even pushed the executive team to think broadly about it, right? And, and broadly about the market and how we-- how the market perceives us and so forth. So, uh, but those employee value proposition, employer branding, they were super critical to address right away from the onset.
Colleen Gallagher: leadership team understands how [00:19:00] important it is to bring in talent. And I, you know, I love the You know, going from sort of an order, order-taking situation to, um, being more of a strategic partner. And that's such an important thing, um, because, you know, even in an environment where, you know, I know you're in, um-- you have, you know, manufacturing and things like that, like it doesn't matter if you're making widgets or if you're, you know, developing software.
Like the people are going to be the thing that really lead you to the best outcomes. And so making sure that you're, you know... It, it's, it's a top of the funnel, right? Not to be making it too like sim-simplistic, but as many possible good candidates coming in in order to, you know, raise the, the quality of folks that you're getting into your organization, and it's so important.
Dennis Ivanov: [00:20:00] Yeah, and kind of to, to probably add to your point, Colleen I think it's also a reflection of my first conversation, my first interview with the founder of the company, uh, Matt Arnold. um, his direct quote was, "Denis, I spent twenty-one years building this awesome culture in the company. Integrity, respect, they are non-negotiable to us." Uh, besides other obviously core values of the company. But he said, " Denis, I really need you to come in and be the guardian of culture. You know, that, that's just basically your role here." And, you know, he would make certain call-outs that basically stated, "Denis, if we can get some program management, you know, program managers out of Amazon, we'll gladly take them."
Right? So it's-- it was more about understanding where the quality of the-- of a strong talent pipeline could be coming from, how we can capture the talent, obviously, and with the proper employee value proposition. So I think that initial partnership with the founder from the onset, and that that eventually translated into the my, uh, direct partnership with the C level, then [00:21:00] eventually stepping into and actually doing the, uh, executive search for the C level and rebuilding pretty much the whole, uh, executive team. Um, that was in itself also establishing relationships, those so-solid relationships I needed to continue executing successfully for the company. That's where, um, you know, it, it-- almost from the onset, talent acquisition function became part of the MBRs, QBRs, um, AOP planning, just as it was at Amazon, right?
It was HR and talent acquisition both are
must within those discussions. So meanings for workforce planning, for discussions, how the business is pl-going to expand. Because I believe ultimately the talent acquisition function is responsible to deliver the talent actually, um, within OPEX budget, that actually, um, deployed simultaneously with business objectives.
So we need to deploy the capital, and we need to deploy the talent at the same time. That's why talent acquisition is a unique function within the HR [00:22:00] because we get deeply integrated with the business strategy.
Colleen Gallagher: Do you, um-- you mentioned, you know, sort of sitting side by side with the HR team, um, for like annual planning, things like that. Were there specific metrics or, or anything like that that, that people focused on? I think getting metrics in TA, um, has been somewhat hard because people tend to look at, you know, everyone's sort of searching for this elusive quality of hire metric, which is really, really complex.
Um, and so there are some others that people tend to use, and I'm curious if, if you all had ones that you look at now or when you were at Amazon.
Dennis Ivanov: So one of the, one of the first things that I set expectations with my VP of talent from the onset was that we definitely need to, um... It took Unimacts almost three months to hire me
Colleen Gallagher: Ah.
Dennis Ivanov: So So I basically, when I came on board, I said this is going to stop. It will take us about three weeks, three, business weeks to [00:23:00] hire actually somebody on board.
Meaning we'll go from forty-plus days down to about fifteen, eighteen days to hire. That was my initial commitment. Additionally, my commitment was one hundred percent offer acceptance rate because it's non-negotiable. I-- The seventy percent offer acceptance rate wasn't good enough for me. That's not a proper benchmark. So, with that said, and also, link the, tenureship, right? So the, attrition has to be reduced as much as possible, not just amidst our existing workforce, but also those who are coming on board, right? How long are they going to last with the company? Are, they going to be the part of that attrition calculation or not? So that meaning onboarding plans, partnering with the hiring teams, partnering with the HR organization to make sure that we have all the proper onboarding and they become successful. Obviously, we give them proper tools, um, obviously the, the freedom to execute and, um, at the same time. So it's, it's a-- it's kind of overall reflection on all of those aspects I think we had to work with. But within eighteen months, we actually realized [00:24:00] already fifteen days to, um, time to fill, uh, one hundred percent offer acceptances. Last year we had ninety-nine percent, but nonetheless for fiscal year. But close enough where we maintained those important benchmarks. But now, um, with implementation of AI and some of the solutions that we're doing, some of the rebuilding of our HR systems as well, we're going to expand on the insights, and that's where it's going to flow deeper into the actual insights and analytics of the, um, how we manage, manage overall the workforce besides simply acquiring, but also managing in all the way to departure and so forth.
So it's, it's, it's going to be pretty much three hundred and sixty, uh, view on how we manage the talent within the company. So that, that's an additional step we're working on right now that, uh, to continue executing on that, um, obviously analytics side of things. Uh, so that's an additional layer that we're, uh, building out right now.
Colleen Gallagher: you talked about how using, you know, investing in employer brand and, and going to career fairs [00:25:00] and partnering with trade schools, et cetera, you were able to really increase the velocity and quantity of your inbound. And, you know, there's a trend right now where recruiters are just abandoning inbound altogether and going all outbound and, you know, it sounds like you push back on that a little bit.
So share more about your philosophy there.
Dennis Ivanov: I'll tell you a little bit more about the discussion we had with the, um, representatives of State of Nevada, um, a couple of weeks ago. And it was interesting because we had the discussion about certain niche positions that are present within the factories, um, specifically role forming, you know, the, uh, technicians, operators.
It's, it's very, very unique profile, uh, even nationwide, in North America for that matter. Um, but at the same time, it was interesting because I knew that the state of Nevada, for example, has certain programs. It's one of the most advanced, I would say, states that works with employers to [00:26:00] enhance their current workforce, um, obviously marketability or skill set, and also help with the hiring such skill set for the companies. So case in point, my direct comment was to the plant manager, "We need to put this, uh, responsibility onto the state of Nevada to find the talent that we need. we-- If they cannot help us, then we need to, um, work with them on how we can do on-the-job training that is compensated by the state so we don't have to obviously incur the costs." And when-- once we had that conversation with the state of Nevada and the plant manager realized the amount of programs available
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: and how much the-- how much funding is available currently, um, he almost gasped, right? So it's-- At this point, um, it just took a couple of meetings basically to connect and get the process started, and now they're project managing basically this whole, of initiative for us, right?
And so they're-- they'll replicate basically the training components, understand the-- what those, uh, training has to, has to contain, [00:27:00] which local school providers will actually be tasked with it. So all we have to do is just kind of tap outside and, and look at what-- how we can enhance our own internal capabilities without need of kind of that knee-jerk reaction, "Let's list the position." But one of the, one of the main aspects that I implemented right away within the company was that every position, it gets listed internally for a week before we go externally to the markets, meaning we cannot overlook the talent that we currently have within the company. And so we've done quite a few internal promotions since I've joined the company as well.
So it's formalized processes and, um, understanding the gaps, how we can close those gaps, the formal trainings to actually-- to make them successful in those positions. So we look internally first before we look outside the market. And a lot of times it's also their referrals, right? Employee referrals, market referrals, um, network referrals. I, I would say half of our positions that I've been working with, it's, it's just a lot of referrals, right? So it was, it was super easy to work in that [00:28:00] aspect.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Okay. I think it's time. Everyone wants to hear about the snow leopard, so tell me the story.
Dennis Ivanov: Yes. So, um, it was one of my-- Uh, it was my last position in, uh, Siberia, in Russia, before I left for United States. So I pretty much left out of a nature preserve Siberia, pretty m- almost straight to Montana, Great Falls, Montana. But It was, uh, I was employed by a nature preserve that was established by the Tsar Nicholas II back in 1915, I believe.
One of the first nature preserves established in, then Imperial Russia. And, uh, specifically that nature preserve is very unique and very kind of quite famous, at least was quite famous, um, because it's a, it's a habitat for Far Eastern leopard, snow leopards, as well as the Amur tiger. And specifically with leopards, my heart was falling for [00:29:00] leopards.
Why? Because were going extinct. There was less than 60 cats left in the world, basically in the wild known cats. And so, um, every cat was as precious as its, uh, the life of that cat.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: we had a joint project w- uh, with Karnaukh Wildlife Research Institute that
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: through multiple different organizations, Worldwide Fund, uh, National Geographic, quite a few it was contributions.
But tiger was big and popular. Leopard was kind of in the shadow, I guess better way to put it as a project. And that's why I worked-- uh, I wanted to work on the leopard specifically because they're not quite known animal. At least in 1990s, not many people knew much. There was very little research done about it, so I participated in research. Basically, I had to, with, um, with some of the American partners that we have worked together, you had to identify the habitat, where they walk by, where they're marking [00:30:00] territories, they will step with their foot. Because to catch them, we caught, we caught them in elder-- it's called eldridge snares. So it's not
trapping them.
Uh, it's only basically to catch them where the, the, the foot would get... uh, their paw would get caught, they're alive and well. And so then the tranquilization, and then, uh, skin samples, blood samples, um, hair samples for an- for research, then fitting the radio collars on them, and then e-eventually releasing them back in the wild, and then tracking them later on.
And the collar-- radio collar usually would last about three years, uh,
Colleen Gallagher: Hello. Wow.
Dennis Ivanov: y- we would have to recatch them back again, basically, to put the new radio collar on. So, um, it's, it's been interesting experiences, but I think this is where specifically my first leopard that I caught with someone who was super famous, I didn't know in the world back then.
His name was Bart Schleyer, and he was one of the top, uh, guides in bow hunting in the world.
Colleen Gallagher: [00:31:00] Huh.
Dennis Ivanov: but it was interesting because when we caught that leopard, uh, it's a, it's a big, deep, and long story. But as, as we caught the leopard, we realized, uh, by the time we approached the location that we forgot the CO2 for our-- for the gun.
Colleen Gallagher: Oh.
Dennis Ivanov: Bart looks at me and he says, "Denis, I have good news and bad news." I said, "Tell me, Bart." He said, "I can tranquilize with a stick." But the bad news, you have to be a bait. Uh, and you can imagine the cable is about six feet away
Colleen Gallagher: Oh.
Dennis Ivanov: five, six feet forward. So that's about at least 11 feet away from the tree. And there was already a circle built up because he was obviously breaking the ground for a few hours before we, we finally stumbled upon him. But, um, I end up being 11 times I was a bait until he finally was able to tranquilize him. So you can imagine [00:32:00] the, the animal that is, um, quite a few feet away, you stand literally two feet away from that circle. That animal basically has every intention, eyes get locked with each other, then the leap forward with claws and the, the, the roar. literally two feet away from Dennis, 176 foot-- 176-pound animal crashes on the ground and starts basically
Colleen Gallagher: Oh my gosh.
Dennis Ivanov: ground, basically growling and, and so 11 times I died and was reborn basically in that situation.
Colleen Gallagher: Wow.
Dennis Ivanov: that's when I learned to truly overcome the fear, I
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: in front of you. You have to be responsible to release them back in the wild. And releasing back in the wild was one of the best experiences, I think, because case in point, he has to wake up-- n-not wake up, he's, he's awake throughout the whole procedure, but he cannot move muscles. So the body is immobile, but [00:33:00] the, but the eyes are moving. He's seeing us. He's-- he sees exactly what's happening. And so we initially had to cover his eyes kind of, uh, it was a little too, too scary in a sense. But, but then eventually, um, during the situation, circumstance, um, it was s- uh, raining in the valley but snowing 300 feet above in the, in the mountains, and so it was very cold. Eventually, I saw... You have to monitor his blood pressure, his condition throughout the whole, uh, experience. And then eventually what happened was he started shivering. And basically he's cold, but he cannot even compose himself, you know? seeing all of this, what do you do? Well, you grab the emergency blanket, you cover the animal as much as you can, and then you lay down next to it and give your warmth to that animal that is trying-- that was trying to kill you just literally an hour ago. And you're just laying there and holding him and giving the warmth to the animal. And then eventually releasing back in the wild, [00:34:00] you know, he-- when he starts finally moving the head, the, the growl comes back and, we were getting prepared. We're literally maybe 20 feet away just to make sure that he's okay. And then eventually he sobers up a little bit and the ma- the most important part is not to get attacked by him again. And so, um-- And we had nothing but just knives with us, right? So it's we have to be responsible,
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: guns.
Colleen Gallagher: Wow. Oh. Yeah. Oh.
Dennis Ivanov: the best part is that we thought we were catching a female with the cubs who we knew was in the same vicinity,
Colleen Gallagher: Mm.
Dennis Ivanov: and we end up catching this male who we lost, uh, his radio collar two years prior.
Colleen Gallagher: Oh.
Dennis Ivanov: So he was on the way to, to a date he was really pissed off. He was not, he was not happy about all of this experience. And so th-that, that night when we were finally, um, doing the tracking, we saw that both radio collars in the same spot,
Colleen Gallagher: Oh, wow. Wow. That's
Dennis Ivanov: happened.
Colleen Gallagher: [00:35:00] like one of the most interesting stories I've ever heard. So how did you go from that to recruiting?
Dennis Ivanov: Oh, good one. I-- Actually, I-- my, my journey has been absolutely kind of rollercoaster, I think, throughout the life in a sense, in, in a good way.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah.
Dennis Ivanov: when I landed, um, in America with two suitcases, um, um, obviously, you know, one suitcase full of books, the other one is full of clothing. One of the first goals I had was to, to receive the formal education.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Wow. Well, you have-- You are probably one of the most interesting people I've ever talked with in terms of your story. Uh, I appreciate you so much sharing that with, with me and our audience. Um, Well, Dennis, thank you so much for joining me today. Um, your stories are incredible, and just the You know, the determination and, and hard work and, you know, y- to me it just, um, you, you know, show a lot of curiosity and hard work and, and there was a lot for folks to, to learn from today.
So [00:36:00] really appreciate you joining.
Thanks to everyone who's listening. Um, and if you learned something today or laughed, please tell somebody about this podcast. Thank you again to Dennis for joining us. This has been another exciting episode of Recruiters on the Rise. We'll see you all next time.
And that wraps up another episode. Thank you for joining. For show notes and other episodes, visit us at recruitersontherise.com. Recruiters on The Rise is sponsored by Lavaliere, an interview intelligence platform. Lavaliere goes beyond basic note-takers to improve your ability to assess candidates with AI-powered interview questions, summaries, and transcription.
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